Oz Isuzu Forums
General Boards => Off Topic => Topic started by: Carlin1983 on Jan 13, 2018, 12:31:50 PM
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Guys - Im looking into getting a Generator, Mostly for emergency backup at home, but may also take out and about - I want to make sure i buy the right type so if i plug fridge or want to plug my PC or TV in (i would have a UPS between Generator and PC) i won't get issues.
I been looking around and the more $$$ ones are the inverter ones then the next step down appear to be ones with AVR (Auto Voltage Reg). Would a Generator with AVR be suitable or should i just fork out and get an inverter one.
thanks
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Hi Carlin, I bought a Yamaha 2800 inverter generator about 6 months before cyclone Yasi. It powers one of our fridges and some lights easily when the powers out. Don’t just look at the power drain of the appliance but some especially with compressors have a higher drain when kicking in. I lived in Townsville when Yasi came through and there were many confirmed reports of cheaper brand inverter generators frying electrical appliances. If you get a decent known brand then you will ultimately have it for many years. If some clown doesn’t steal it. There were also several generators stolen from backyards while being used too so get a good lock and cable. Also, during Yasi one unfortunate young man didn’t understand the issue with carbon monoxide and ran his generator inside his shed where he was sleeping. He didn’t wake up. Also try to hear them running as some can be extremely loud and annoying to others. Mines probably a little big for camping unless in a large group. My parents 2000 watt Inverter Honda is still going strong after 15 years of solid use. Just service them properly.
Hope this helps Shane
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We bought a Kipor 2000 when we lived on the boat. Apparently the Chinese factory was producing Honda suitcase generators and then produced their own 'replica'. It's slightly more noisy than the Honda but considerably cheaper. If the load isn't great the generator will reduce speed and use less fuel (it's an inverter type).
One of the thing to be careful with when selecting a generator is not to confuse the stated electrical output with the actual output. Eg, our Kipor 2000 is rated at 2000 Watts, but that is only the initial start up load. The maximum continuous load is 1600 Watts.
If you have done an energy audit you will have calculated your maximum load and identified suitable generators. I doubt I'd take our Kipor camping preferring to rely on a 12V/240V inverter, battery(s) and solar panels.
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Hi Carlin. I just bought one yesterday as a generator for free camping in the caravan, but also a back up for home.
If you want the best and can afford it , then get a yamaha inverter generator as Shane suggests. If it is only for occasional use then check out the Cromtech outback from mygenerator.com.au .It does 2400Wpeak and 2100W continuous power, quiet at only 52 -59dBa,only weighs 20kg dry and is good on fuel usage . Best thing for me too was the price. A little over $800 on sale with a first purchase coupon. The Yamaha is normally north of $2k, but if using every day would be worth it.
Whatever way you go make sure you get a pure sine wave inverter generator and you will be ok with using sensitive electronic equipment -computer, laptop, tv etc.
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G,Day Carlin apart from Hondas & Yamahas which are no doubt very good inverter generators, have look
on line ITECHWORLD WA they have one inverter generator rated at 4.8 kva and very little heavier or
bigger in size to compared to say a Honda 2kva. The specs read up very good also the reviews and at
$2300 value. Where is it made !.
Cheers Bazza
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G’day Carlin
A steer away from just generators and AVR ones too. The AVR May hold the voltage at/near the right voltage but it may be way out of phase and no where near 50 cycles / sec. Many modern items use switch mode power supplies which are made to operate at 50hertz. If the frequency isn’t right for some items the switch mode inputs either don’t know what to do with it and they get hot and burn inside or simply won’t start operating
With 12v to 240v inverters similar happens.
I have one Laptop which runs on 12v inverter Non Sinewave, and one which will run on the Non sine wave but gets a bit too warm. I imagine the various generators are similar. Wave forms different though.
My Honda E20i will run in Ecomode as many do, and it then only makes enough power to cover the load.
It will run a 9” angle grinder and I have used it to weld with an efficient inverter stick welder with small rods in emergency situations.
If using any generator for battery charging don’t use the 12v charge outlet. They are next to useless and require the generator to run at full speed. Using a 240v battery charger with Genny on Eco, means it will run much slower and efficiently and quieter while running the battery charger at it’s full output. Far more efficient this way.
Cheers
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https://www.tradetools.com/product-range/outdoor-power-equipment/generators/renegade-inverter-generator-3-3kw-electric-start-6-5hp
https://www.tradetools.com/product-range/outdoor-power-equipment/generators/renegade-industrial-3kva-inverter-generator
Ive had my eye on these one -
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You do pay for what you get. Personal choice would be Honda or Yamaha which are proven generators. Though you pay more you get reliabilty.
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If I was going to use it heaps I’d go Honda / Yamaha. But am tempted by them tradetools ones.
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Couple of mates have generators one has a Yamaha 2.4 kva about 4 months old and it started to play up he had a look inside and reckons its the worst assembled machine he has seen - paint missing - uncleaned or painted welds - the problem was corrosion on some of the terminals that he is trying to get fixed under warranty.
Reckons next time he get a cheap one.
The other bloke has a property and bought a Grudge 3.0 kva at a farm fest gets thrown into ute when he needs it went for 3 yrs and blew a voltage regulator $60 for a new one obout 5 yrs ago still going strong.
Reckons next one will be another one.
I tend to agree with both of them - buy cheap and throw it out when it plays up.
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One that has a regulator won't be an inverter generator and so negates what the op is asking about. Carlin wants to run sensitive stuff so any other type than an inverter isn't going to be what he wants no matter how cheap or throw away they are.
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Yeh, buy cheap and throw it out but when they play up it’s usually when you need it most. There’s no one to fix it or way to buy a new one when your in the middle of a natural disaster or 8 o’clock at night in a storm.
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Ive been also look at the Westinghouse and SPTools Generators.
they have a range of non inverter Generators but produce SineWave quality power - My understanding is this would be suitable to sensitive devices (even thou id still use a UPS)
link to westinghouse info - https://glencoairpower-4f77.kxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/westinghouse_generator_brochure.pdf
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The Westinghouse brochure does not specifically state the output is 'pure' sine wave. It might be... but then it might be modified sine wave which could adversely affect electronics in some appliances. I would check it was pure sine wave before purchasing.
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Any generator produces sine waves, it is just not necessarily in synch with the thing you want to Power or the correct voltage. A generator won’t create modified sqaurewaves, they are a product of electronic switching.
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Any generator produces sine waves, it is just not necessarily in synch with the thing you want to Power or the correct voltage. A generator won’t create modified sqaurewaves, they are a product of electronic switching.
I might be way off - if I took my UPS to the tool shop and got them to start the Demo ones, and then plug UPS in and see if it would accept the power from generator or just keep going to the battery. Would that give a idea on power quality.
Or is my thinking off.
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Yes. UPS's will rectify incoming voltage and recreate the sinusoidal 230V.
UPS's are used to clean up dirty/varying voltages as well as provide power when the incoming mains goes out. Length of supply when power is out is dependant on the UPS's battery capacity.
If using a UPS for your 'delicate/sensitive' electronic goods then you could get away with a 'poorer' quality generator although I think it is false economy if powering items regularly via the UPS.....although UPS will provide power from its battery/s when there is no incoming voltage.
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I’ll prob go with a inverter one, was just interested.
When it comes time price Honda / Yamaha also saw this on on Westinghouse site. Just been reading heaps.
https://glencoairpower-4f77.kxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/westinghouse_digital_inverter_generator_brochure.pdf
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Carlin
If using at home or camping, the Decibel reading stated on Honda's and Yamaha's I believe is reasonably true. Others claim better stats, but you run one and your ears may notice the DB reading isn't as stated on the label.
So make sure when buying you have tried a few and even test them with your phone recording the sounds. Maybe you can analyse the waveform on a sound program to see the results.
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Carlin
If using at home or camping, the Decibel reading stated on Honda's and Yamaha's I believe is reasonably true. Others claim better stats, but you run one and your ears may notice the DB reading isn't as stated on the label.
So make sure when buying you have tried a few and even test them with your phone recording the sounds. Maybe you can analyse the waveform on a sound program to see the results.
My old man has in last few mths brought the 2kw Honda inverter one, when I visit next going to fire up and listen etc, then compare when I go have look at others.
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The 2kw Honda is in runout at the moment. Some great deals going if anybody still has stock. New model is 2.2kw
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Freddie,
Do you know if that makes them 1800w continuous?
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I've owned three generators now; four if you count the fact that one of them had to be replaced just one month in.
The cheaper generators were all awful -- they worked sometimes, but when you really wanted them to, they didn't -- and I did know to look after them, not leave old fuel in the carby, etc.
Ended up buying a Honda eu20i maybe three years ago, and it has been great.
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I'm in the same boat, my ebay Fuji generator has died after 8 years of
abuse use. Can't get spare parts, was big enough to run small box A/C or fridge, batter chargers for the boat etc, but couldn't power a 2400W kettle. Was great value $450 and did the job.
This time round dollars aren't the issue, so will be getting the Yamaha 2800 inverter generator from MyGenerators because of warranty, availability of spare parts,smart throttle for fridge and A/C and big fuel tank.
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Have a look at this. Never had issues with there gear.
It's pure sine wave which is what you want for computers etc. Even will run a hair drier on low.
https://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/products/generators-24/2kva-generator-combo-deals/adventure-kings-2kva-generator-cover-for-2kva-generator.html
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I’d thought about a cheaper one - but I will be going a Honda / Yamaha / Westinghouse.
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Carlin.
Honda and Yamaha are renown engine makers who also attach an alternator to their product, integral with the inverter unit.
Westinghouse don’t make engines but must contract the production or procurement of something which is also called a generator. Unless to be used as toy sometimes perhaps the proven ones are best value in the long term.
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I’d thought about a cheaper one - but I will be going a Honda / Yamaha / Westinghouse.
Hi Carlin. I bought a Honda 2.0I in 2007 for work purposes. Still have it today and it has been used on many job sites and as back up power for our house.
A mate has a Yamaha for about six years. 2.4 kva. He uses it for back up power to his house and his caravan.
To date nil problems with either.
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It really is a no brainer. Honda and Yamaha are by far the best generators. May cost that little bit more, but they will outlast the rest, and definitely have the lowest dB.
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Carlin, it looks like you do a fair bit of research before you purchase gear. Prices vary a bit from place to place. I made a plywood deck with decent castor wheels for my 2800 watt Yamaha generator. Then I cut the base out of an Iplex cardboard box . It fits over perfectly. Keeps dust off it and sits in the corner of the garage and looks like an old box of plumbing pipe fittings. If I was to buy again it would still be between a Yamaha or Honda. They’re both just super reliable, like Isuzu’s.
cheers Shane
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Ive been out looking at a few - Getting them started etc etc. - I am now leaning towards the Yamaha EF2400iS
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Bit the bullet - I ended up going the Yamaha EF2800i. Since it’s mainly for back up, not camping etc. so a little more power then the 2400is But is a tad louder.
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Guys - is there any sort of “breakin” or “run in” for a new Gen. manual says nothing.
Just to change oil after 1mth or 20hrs.
I’m leaning towards, running it for a few hours at 60% to 70% ish load. Plus will be a bit of a stress test as well.
Or should I be loading up to near maximum
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G'day Carlin
I would run it at about 60% for a while so it beds in the engine parts, maybe towards the end make sure it will easily boil an electric jug ie, 2000w or more and then change the oil. The oil won't be dirty but it takes out any particles of bed in metal etc.
Most don't do this, but after having stopped for a long time in storage I often turn the whole thing (mine EU20i) upside down so the lube oil is on the cylinder walls and som edrains onto the bigend before starting.
I run Mobil 1 in the sump, just what I like to do.
Probably not a good idea to use higher octane unleaded as the engine is designed for just unleaded unless it specifies to do so. The normal unleaded burns quicker and therefore burns more fully. 98 octane burns slower and since the engine hasn't got a sophisticated ign timing it can't take advantage of higher ratings and advancement. If higher rated fuel is used, it can cause the engine and exhaust valve to run hotter as the fuel isn't ignited well in advance as for slower higher octane fuel. That slower burn is still happening when exhaust valve is about to open or has opened. The burn should be over before the exhaust opens.
A builder did some work for me for a period of time at house with no power and he used a 2400 Yamaha. It used oil a bit and the engine was getting tired. I serviced it an added M1 it seemed to run quieter and smoother also used less oil in the ensuing weeks doing the same work.
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I run it for a hour this afternoon - had to head out - was using a heater and flood lights - Draw was about 2000watt.
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Am going to do another hour or so tomorrow as well.