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Electric Cars !

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maweida:
Ok, so have been thinking about EV's. On the surface, they sound great, no fuel, clean (if you charge with solar, not coal), quiet but are they.....

- Cost ... a basic EV starts at $80,000, so comparing to a $40,0000 CX5 it takes ALOT of fuel to save the $40,000 difference. At 10,000km per year at 7l/100 = $1,400 per year in fuel, so $40,000 / $1,400 = 28 years to repay the difference!!! what the!. Also most will redraw on their Morgage, so the interest on $80,000 at 7% = $5,600 per year (far greater than the fuel saving). Also, if you charge your car with coal power, it still costs you electricity (so instead of paying for petrol, your power bill goes up). Fuel seems expensive, but when you crunch the numbers, its very cheap (compared to interest on loan etc).

- Environmental - most EV owners charge their cars with coal fired power. This produces way more Co2 than burning petrol. Charging from your solar panels is the best way (if you have them)

- Shape - most EVs are crappy sedans, no one likes sedans anymore, the boots are small and the driving position is too low, and no offroads etc (can't really compare). Also, EV's can't tow, so they don't even match the capability of an internal combustion car.

- Range - my MuX gets 7.3l/100 - so 1100km from a tank, most EVs only go 500km. LiPo batteries are highly temperature sensitive, at zero degrees, your range can drop by 1/3 (ouch).

- Life - everyone knows that LiFePO4 batteries are lucky to last 8 years. Then you need to buy another $80,000 car. An Isuzu will last 20 years and 300,000km! However, very likely that aftermarket batteries will be available (to avoid having to purchase a new EV)

- Rubbish - ICE (internal combustion) cars last 15-20 years, but EVS only last 8 years. Therefore there will be twice the rubbish (old cars) generated. Also, ICE cars are fully recyclable, but EVS have heavy metals (lithium, copper, Nickle, niobium).

- Resale value - EV batteries have warranties from 5 - 8 years, however, what will the resale value be of your $80,000 car after 8 years (when the warranty expires), will be interesting, but would have thought you would have to give it away!

- Fire hazards, EVS catch fire and I've heard that your house is not covered by insurance if your EV catches fire. 

- Insurance costs - i just got a quote for a $80k Tesla Y, at $1600, but my $55k MUX is only $700 (now i have $1000 to buy fuel!)

I think EVS have a future, but they need to be charged by green power, last longer, longer range, SUV shape, and be half the price, and tow 3 tonne for me to consider this (just a few things   :laughing7: )

Elon has a bit of work to do!!

VALKIE:
A very clear and concise consideration of the facts as we know them.

But try to get that by EV nuts and the fanatic in the climate religion.

The grubberment and those making a great deal of money from these EVs are doing an excellent job brainwashing idiots into believing lies and mistruths.

But all things aside, as you have pointed out
they are not a viable replacement for a good old diesel 4x4, never will be with the current technology.
And I'm not seeing any wonderous and game changing technology on the horizon either.

But, in the end, we will all be forced into these things eventually one way or another.
Just look at the price of diesel.
Up until the grubberment decided to go after utes and 4x4s, diesel was always 30 to 50c a liter cheaper than petrol (only logical really as it is less refined).
And when that failed, they decided to price us away from them.

Makes you wonder who is paying the bribes.

257Bob:

--- Quote from: maweida on Mar 26, 2024, 12:24:17 PM ---- Life - everyone knows that LiFePO4 batteries are lucky to last 8 years. Then you need to buy another $80,000 car. An Isuzu will last 20 years and 300,000 500,000km!

--- End quote ---

Fixed it.   :icon_thumleft:

Seriously, you have hit the nail on the head.  I wouldn't be paying $80 000 every eight years.  My Dmax is over eight years now with 160 000km.  I'm keeping it till at least 300 000km, hopefully 400 000km.  Too much money to lose every eight years.  I'm not sure what the resale value is on an eight year EV with a worn out battery.  Not much I'd say.  Maybe people will wise up in a few years when it comes time to upgrade and they see how much money they have lost. 

applemaxvic:
Electric Cars. real life account of the owner ship of an Electric car for the last 2 years.

In 2022 We bought a 2020 Nissian Leaf with 7,000Km on the clock for NZd $38,000, Yes I live here in NZ when Im not Travelling Aust In my 2015 Dmax.
our old runaround town car was a toyota Avensis 2005 doing 20,000 km per year,10lt/100km on 98octane,our fuel bill has been $6000 per year plus 2oil/filter changes. yes we pay $3.00 per litre 98 petrol, Diesel In NZ is around $1.80lt
The EV Nissin Leaf is a hatch back similar size to a  Toyota Corolla.
We are doing 20,000km per year so far. its a great little car to drive and it can out accelerate a V8 if you need to quickly pass another vehicle.
We have done 40,000km so far and have not needed to service anything, nothing!!! We will need to replace tyres at 50.000km.
We have solar panels on the house and can  charge car slowly thru the day, we have a Electric Power company tarrif that allows for  free power from the grid between 9pm and Midnight so can top up EV  then at no cost.
Our home power bill is averaging $45 per month because of the solar panels
So far in two years we have saved $11,860 in fuel costs compared to the 2005 toyota.
We have a 4x4 Isuzu with the 4Jb1  2.8 turbo  for long adventure trips where ever.
In Australia you can buy a petty dam good EV for $45,000,  you can spend more if you chose.
The EV makers are all guaranteeing the  car and batteries to last  better than 70% after 8 Years. or there abouts.
Many EV have hit 200,000 Miles and more.
Coal fired power stations can  extract better the 95% of the energy potential of the coal.
An ICE engine, petrol or diesel, barely can extract 30% of the energy potential of the fuel they burn.
4x4 EV are available now but pricey, car companys are pretty focused on city cars for obvious reasons.

We are really enjoying owning this EV Leaf, its good to drive and I'm not missing all the servicing not needed,
and while like all newish car, it has depreciated in Value , the saving in fuel has cancelled that out,

It does take a bit of rethinking but pretty doable  even for us old fellows,
Cheers Bob

Munro:
All pros and cons aside, my main gripe with EVs is that we simply don't have the infrastructure to handle everyone plugging in to some extent at night. 

The poles and wires can't hack it, we aren't too terrible for outright generation when you factor renewables but we don't have anything like the storage needed, and once we put PV on every roof with batteries to feed your car at night, you might as well wave goodbye to clean water and air as a result of the industrial processes alone.  Nothing, not even sun and wind power, is free.

I will be dead before those gremlins are ironed out.

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