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Author Topic: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam  (Read 6690 times)

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Offline WAI4WD

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Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #15 on: Jul 22, 2022, 02:36:09 PM »
Quote
In this way, BMW might be able to save money by streamlining production, but unless a customer actually orders heated seats in a car, they'll just be sitting around until they're paid for, via a subscription or otherwise.
Pretty much what I thought... instead of making various seats, they make one, which is cheaper overall. If you buy the feature, you get it for life. If you want it later on, you can activate it at a cost.
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Offline yvesjv

Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #16 on: Jul 23, 2022, 10:28:39 AM »
The argument can be summed to: subscriptions based services are coming for cars and not everyone likes this future.
 
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Offline yvesjv

Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #17 on: Oct 21, 2022, 10:39:38 AM »
 

Offline Munro

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Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #18 on: Oct 21, 2022, 03:02:00 PM »
If increases in costs are mitigated because production is streamlined, I don't really see the issue.  If you don't check an option box or opt in later, that's on you.  If you have paid for your vehicle to have a feature, then it goes without saying that such features should work for the life of the vehicle, and be transferrable between owners.

To my eye, the approach from certain consumers seems to be "my car has seat warmer hardware installed, therefore it should just work no matter what."  Expecting to have unfettered access to a feature you haven't paid for is a pretty puerile attitude, in my opinion.
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Offline dilbert

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Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #19 on: Oct 21, 2022, 08:41:32 PM »
In my opinion it is naive to believe that a manufacturer installs inactive hardware in a new car for free, and they only charge customers who opt to activate said hardware. There is no doubt in my mind that the manufacturer will recoup the (mitigated) cost of the installed hardware at point-of-sale, regardless of whether the consumer chooses to activate it or not. Those who choose not to activate are paying for something they don't want, but are going to get anyway. They are probably also indirectly subsidising the people who do choose to activate.

It's a bit like having aircon shoved down your throat; or more recently having "intelligent driver assist" systems and devices shoved down your throat. Yes, the latter is mandated by government, but the principle is the same. You end up paying big time for something you may not want.

It's an unethical practice designed to minimise the manufacturer's costs of production, and maximise the manufacturer's take at point-of-sale. Corporate greed, not the customer, is the motive.

Where are we headed? It's foreseeable that when you open your car door you will see a message on the head unit saying "Have you paid your subscription this month? If not, Isuzu HQ will not let you start your car!" Or you'll be consigned to a limp mode. Or the message advises that your credit card has been debited for the following activated services...bum warmer...hand warmer...sport mode...ECU update...6th gear...radio...etc. Where does it stop?
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Offline Munro

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Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #20 on: Oct 21, 2022, 09:26:35 PM »
it is naive to believe that a manufacturer installs inactive hardware in a new car for free, and they only charge customers who opt to activate said hardware.
I believe any differences would, by law, be made obvious in the bill of sale.  Anyone with the wherewithal to buy a new car is capable of checking their bill and asking the relevant questions, as easily as they can blindly pay the moron tax.  Forgive my likely-outdated mental map of the 3-Series hierarchy, but expecting 335i features for 318i money, purely because various bits might be present and ready for deployment at the customer's financial discretion, is just daft.

Whether models in the range do go up in price purely because of added elements is open for debate... but the list price of nearly every new car has gone up anyway for reasons ranging from zero, to COVID, to "demand", to midlife upgrades.  Looking for granular detail and transparency in that arena is like dissecting warm jelly with a scalpel.  Good luck.
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Offline wj957

Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #21 on: Oct 22, 2022, 06:33:21 AM »
While I too find it hard to believe that a manufacturer would only build one model with all the top end electronics physically installed, but not activated, that is until sold.
You tick the boxes and pays ya money.

I have a $5k hearing aid, custom molded to fit my ear canal. There are five different models to choose from depending on the features and level of performance your require (or can afford).

You put the hearing aid in, the consultant/technician/sales person turns on each individual feature you require, and tunes it via bluetooth from their pc. Then hands you the invoice.

Each device is physically equipped with the latest electronic features.
At any time you can upgrade your device to a higher standard, via their bluetooth, and your cash.
 

Offline yvesjv

Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #22 on: Oct 22, 2022, 07:36:33 AM »
Where does it stop?
I think this is a rort.
A very dishonest practice taking advantage of people that buy a product for prestige, bragging points and the likes.
It may generate a generous income stream for the business but it would be akin to paying multiple rents to an astute grifter.

Meanwhile I bet the rest of us just want the product as advertised, period.
Buy the car as built, pay the yearly insurance and the road-assist and done.
 

Offline Navigator

Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #23 on: Oct 22, 2022, 02:42:00 PM »
I'm still failing to see why this is an issue, or why people are so scared of it.   If you're buying the car new, and you want something available with it, tick the box, pay your money and it's yours for life.   Your circumstances change a year later and some function you didn't select would now be beneficial for you, subscribe and activate it.  Ditto if you buy the car second hand and the original buyer didn't pick something you want.
 

Offline Munro

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Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #24 on: Oct 22, 2022, 05:23:11 PM »
I'm still failing to see why this is an issue

I think there's a preconceived notion that because some widget or other is present in a device but not enabled, you're somehow being ripped off, even when it can be demonstrated that the next customer with the feature enabled pays more.

WJ957's example is very apt; in some cases streamlining the production process by including as much potential functionality as possible will help to make a complete product accessible to more customers more readily, instead of fiddling with a hundred different configurations specifically to order.

The only argument with any traction that I can see is the possibility of the base price of something being inflated to compensate, but that argument deliberately ignores potential savings made along the way in personnel, machinery, buildings for production lines and the like.  And even if the price has increased by a consolidated amount for consolidated reasons... good luck breaking that down into double or triple-digit figures for widgets.  That's wishful thinking.
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Offline yvesjv

Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #25 on: Nov 24, 2022, 05:44:17 AM »
And Merc has decided to start scamming too.
Subscription fee for the ability to accelerate on a couple of EV models...
https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/23/23474969/mercedes-car-subscription-faster-acceleration-feature-price

Next I guess would be a subscription for breathing the oxygen coming in through the air vents... just kidding!
 

Offline dilbert

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Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #26 on: Nov 24, 2022, 05:34:02 PM »
At the risk of being labelled by the more intelligent members of the forum as being scared, or a moron, I think this is just plain wrong. $1200 per year to access the vehicle's full performance potential is outright manufacturer extortion.
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Offline Munro

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Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #27 on: Nov 24, 2022, 06:41:27 PM »
I don't think anyone's arguing that recurring charges for features like heated seats is a good idea.  An annual charge for an acceleration option such as the Mercedes example is wrong without question; the feature should either be paid and delivered, or not.

However, having a feature enabled for a one-time fee, and therefore achieving the exact same end result as having the vehicle  conventionally equipped with said feature, is fine.
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Offline Navigator

Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #28 on: Nov 25, 2022, 02:40:48 AM »
I don't think anyone's arguing that recurring charges for features like heated seats is a good idea.  An annual charge for an acceleration option such as the Mercedes example is wrong without question; the feature should either be paid and delivered, or not.

However, having a feature enabled for a one-time fee, and therefore achieving the exact same end result as having the vehicle  conventionally equipped with said feature, is fine.

Yes, I still see no issue with a one off fee to enable a feature, whether you pay that when you purchase the car or further down the track.  Holding owners to ransom by requiring continuous paying to access features is an issue though.  None of the stories I've seen on this seem to indicate that Mercedes is giving owners the option to pay for it in one hit, it's only by subscription, and that's a pretty low act, even by the very low bar set by Mercedes generally.
 

Offline WAI4WD

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Re: Why never buy a BMW or any other that does the subscription scam
« Reply #29 on: Nov 25, 2022, 06:50:16 AM »
Well... Merc sales fell off a cliff when they went to a fixed pricing model. Just more silly stuff from them.
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